Reason Rally 2012 ~Tim Minchin Storm

Comment by pendragon on March 25, 2012 at 12:46pm

Howdy lima

Greetings from Not Europe

‘bout time a counterweight appeared. Thanks for posting this. 

Comment by lima on March 25, 2012 at 12:52pm

Hey pendragon, greetings from PA.  :)  It was a great experience!  Trying to get more stuff uploaded, just very big files, so taking a while.

Comment by ThatGirl on March 25, 2012 at 1:18pm

My favorite from Tim Minchin “Science adjusts its views BASED on whats observed. 

Faith is the Denial of OBSERVATION so that belief can be preserved.”

 

Oh dear Lima, I wish I could have been there, but I was stuck here. Saw Dawkins Speech, Loved it, and at the same time Missed Hitch, and thought how wonderful that would have been to see him there as well. Got my copy of Hitch 22 signed in person just weeks before he fell ill, and I feel lucky for that opportunity.  We’ll do something again in future together, I am SO happy you had fun. This is life…not delusion…

The sad part-they're already busy on youtube, doing damage control,"editing" clips for effect ,selling claims the Rally is a bunch of god-obsessed folks who cant stop talking about a god they dont believe in. Well, we should Never have to address fantasies people entertain in their personal lives, but as long as they infiltrate and divert progress in government, education, research and medicine, we will have to address it.We get ONE life, I aint wasting it on church, I'm studying.

I have a hard time when faced with people in professions based on science math tech and history,,who still proclaim faith in a creator while accepting scientific data and history which cancel it out. They disappoint me most. If they mustered the courage to be truthful with themselves, things would change exponentially quicker.

 My only hope remains the SAME as it EVER was. Generational Change is key and perhaps the rally will be a catalyst to awareness and give others the courage to come out. Being a cat is cool, as long as we're left to ourselves, but that ain't the case in America, so Gathering IS a necessary response, IMO.

As long as non believers are targeted at work, school and community when they speak out, they will continue to simply stay quiet and not be "bothered" with the boring subject of religion. This is not a delusion, it is a fact. In every workplace in each industry I have been employed, faith comes up and managers succumb to some "invisible sense of duty" to mention god, thank god and ask people to pray, therefore promoting this crap, even when I know them not to be faithful. It doesnt belong in a workplace meeting but shows up.

All I EVER ask, is keep your faith out of my bedroom, our schools, legislature and my body, thank you very much.  Love ya, girlfriend. Why am I typing all this, I'm preaching to the choir......Okay I gotta go. have a great sunday being good without god.

Comment by Chig on March 25, 2012 at 3:12pm

Yay.

TG.   Sometimes it is okay to just not know the answer to some questions.   Life moves at the speed of life.  So do people.   Don't feel disappointment in those folks. These folks don't see science = anti religious faith.  Probably because some branches of Science are not always based on the observable or even reproduciblilty of observation. 

  I constantly fight my nature to feel disappointment in those who miss the faith part in Science.   I worry that a scene like the one like in the one "Planet of the Apes" movie where the disfigured humans worshiped the bomb will come of putting Science up on a holy pedestal. 

I can appreciate Dawkins as he basically agrees in my observation that science does not say I am more evolved than a sea sponge.  He has a great understanding of Science.

Yet at the same time I can admit the leaps of faith in our views on evolution and appreciate the pure science that also exists in that field.   The field of Eolutionary biology is not pure though.  I don't think he would ever admit to the faith part.

Comment by ThatGirl on March 25, 2012 at 4:40pm

@Chig - EXACTLY. I EMBRACE and REJOICE in the fact we do not have the answers; that is what drives research and discovery. I will still be disappointed in those folks because I believe they lack integrity when called to the carpet.  I have had conversations with professors/professionals/doctors who lean back on .."well we cant explain it" so it must be god. I find it irrational and believe sometimes they say it to avoid "possibly offending" a believer who may be listening - that's irresponsible. We dont have to respect someones delusion or apologize for our lack of them.  I have sat in class with a nursing professor telling us "god works in mysterious ways", in explaining how although statistically a woman would have perished by not seeking treatment for so long, miraculously she was at a treatable stage when evaluated.  That has no place in a classroom, and it's OUTrageous. Call it what it is , a statistical improbability, an anomaly. Was I supposed to type that into my notes?  Then there are professionals who proclaim faith but don't really believe, and are preserving their social status and income by making this proclamation- (for example-they dont tell the jewish/catholic/muslim community they serve, they think they are deluded).  They disappoint because they are being insincere and thereby create a false picture that atheists exist in small number, as a result. I know atheists who were baptized into religion at birth, are not believers, but continue to be untruthful on the national census. That is NOT helping keep religion out of politics and education for example. I have no interest in a battle with anyone, but am merely disappointed.

We could peddle fear of the extreme taking place on either side of this coin- Re: "Planet of the Apes" but I dont see it coming from the atheist side. I dont hear atheist speaker suggesting science HAS answers, in fact quite the opposite.Discoveries always preface themselves with- this is what we know now, this is all we can know, this is all we have the capacity to see and know,and will continue to test, until such time we learn more or another variable changes things; sets the stage for science being ever changing. Science never needs to make apologies, because it questions/tests itself. I don't fear a movement of people holding science on a pedestal. Atheists are speaking out about personal freedom and preserving that for human beings.

Science has to fail in order for progress to result. It's part of the process. If science does not step out on that limb, we will fail to discover new medical treatments, advance in exploring and understanding the components of our universe, feed the inhabitants of this planet, understand the human brain, learn to possibly correct genetic errors, cure cancer and preserve our environment...yea yea, "i am legend", "zombie apocalypse" yada yada-  science gone immoral caused them all. 

My point remains= in this millennia one cannot deny the oppression of advancement by those peddling fantasies which endanger the lives of human beings and violate their rights to personal freedoms.  Atheists are not a dangerous group conspiring to force anything upon the faithful.  It's not about being right or wrong, but preserving secularism and that concerns all of us in America.  The field of evolutionary biology is in a fetal stage, I don't think Dawkins denies that, indeed, and are you going by what you've read in Dawkins "The Selfish Gene"?  I don't know where faith fits into an evolutionary theory but...maybe i typed all this because I get a sense of fear for which there is NO reason. Fear not. we wish to preserve humanity, not destroy it by our lack of belief in skydaddy.

Comment by ThatGirl on March 25, 2012 at 5:47pm

Here's why we have to start speaking up:

http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2010/03/panic-over-the-unknown-america...

I always consider the source as a rule when linking anything.

I thought this to be quite enlightening as it is from a publication by The American Society of Trial Consultants. The data is critical to these individuals as they need to consider prejudices against jurors/litigants/accused in their decision making. ( you have to get past the use of the term "belief group" a misnomer - but recognize  the challenge atheists present in a courtroom by reading the article).

..because there is no denying it any longer.

In several trials I have had the pleasure of litigating pro-se in the recent past, it has been my experience that even professing my lack of faith, I was advised that since it's just a Book to me, it shouldn't matter, so putting my hand on it in the courtroom was a GOOD idea for everyone else's sake.  SAD...but true.

Comment by Chig on March 25, 2012 at 7:05pm

I hope the rally gives some folks courage to say how they feel who have been in fear to say otherwise.   But honestly, everyone these days should fear the political climate because even Syd the "pacifish"  wants to beat certain men.   :-P 

Comment by Chig on March 25, 2012 at 7:21pm

No argument that everyone should have equal voice.  No arguement that people in the current political climate think people of other ideas and beliefs or non beliefs are ignorant and dangerous.

However, there are brilliant Athiest scientists as well who proclaim that the numbers surely mean that somewhere else in the universe  life exists.  It could be Microscopic or the size of a planet.... who knows?   They look at what they term super Earths orbiting distant points of light.... There must be billions and  billions of these right?   There must be some form of life on some of them Super Earths out there.  It just couldn't happen here, right?    That too is an unprovable leap of faith. I look at the claim of life elsewhere with the same skeptical eye as the belief in sSkydaddy.

Science needs Faith to go anywhere with anything.  Science is not pure observation.  Wake up and smell the reality anyone who taps on their textbooks and claims otherwise.  I watch too many folks in the Scientific arena take the same data and at the end of their thesis come to the exact opposite conclusions to not be aware that there is a leap or two in there made.

Anytime someone points to a fragment of a fossil, I ask one simple question.  Why is that not the end of the line for that species?  Why must that be related to something that lives today which you have based some hypothesis on?   Faith based observation or some MDNA attempted explanation usually follows.   If they point to proteins like mitochondrial DNA, I point to the fact that in modern molecular methods they worry about having a freaking set of wooden shelves in the same room as they do the PCR amplification and  testing on samples collected just minutes before.  Cross contamination is a HUGE issue.  They have to have sterile and clean environments.  What did that fossil go through and for how long in a non sterile environment?  Again faith in the science.  I may believe in something, but HELL YES I QUESTION IT!    Shame that that does not happen in traditional religion.  That I think is where the difference lies.

Maybe I am not disappointed as much as bewildered at the magical have answers to everything and pure and untainted view of science held by those who think it holds.   It does lead to disease cures and such, but in their days architectural feats, Mathematics, and even cures were born of the Skydaddy belief system.  SkyDaddy Science is just continuing that process.  And it too can be "destroyer of worlds" as we have seen.

People are people and always will be no matter.   Big Smiles from me that this rally happened.  It  was due.

Comment by lima on March 25, 2012 at 8:02pm

I'm still too scared to post my vids on my facebook page... a lot of family and friends on there that I know will shun me if I do...  don't know if I am ready for that.  I might post a vid and see what happens, but still really scared to do it.

Comment by Chig on March 25, 2012 at 9:09pm

Are you talking about the vids going to this rally?  Well a lot of folks already are happy you shared.

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