Whatever floats your boat...
So, Does Romantic Love=NEED?
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Comment by spacemonkey1310 on February 15, 2009 at 11:54am
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I echo motc's comment.
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Comment by SydTheSkeptic on February 15, 2009 at 3:42pm
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@Pyper-The only thing I was doing in jest in the first video was how I was saying it, but what I was saying was spot on to what I believe.
And it's true when I discuss this with others, they think I've been hurt or abandoned or something. It's not a matter of looking back and deciding on something because it fits my paradigm and it's easier to live with- I feel, as an observer and a writer, it's something I've noticed with a helluva lot of couples. Of course I can be wrong about what I'm assuming, but sometimes (a lot of times, actually), my assumptions have been proven correct in the long run, unbeknownst to those I wondered about.
It's also a common theme in literature, about how our culture defines things for us so that we try to live our lives within those lines and it's wholly unnatural. Diderot, Voltaire, Conrad...these were writers whose works were most memorable to me.
@Ameh- love as an open-door policy....I like that, but as I get older, I'm less and less willing to compromise my own individuality and independence for the sake of a relationship. This is definitely a selfish thing on my part, but it'd be different if I were lonely. Maybe one day I will be. But the fear of that is not going to steer my decisions right now.
I don't buy that line that relationships are all about compromise. They shouldn't have to be.
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@photo- yes, part of my kickin' the whole thing is based on that pressure to reach some ideal of what romantic love is. The expectations are unrealistic. I think I like the shark joke the most! lol
@Suz- "It is just too hard to keep filling their pot holes and still stay true to myself." Omigod, you summed it up right there with regard to my relationships...
@Jessica- I don't know you and Deb personally, but just from what I see and hear, it sounds truly wonderful. I hope what you have happens to me, seriously.
If someone comes along whom we mutually complement one another's life, but there's not a NEED for the other, it just happens and we love it and we enjoy it and we would be remiss without it, BUT we'd not be feeling like half of us is gone if the other were to leave.
I'd feel blessed to have known that love, knowing full-well how special and rare it was, but I don't see how it could last unless the two lovers never had any other expectation except to enjoy the other's company. THAT sounds like the perfect relationship to me.
@luv- Unconditional love to me is more about not expecting more than what the other has professed to give. In order for that to work, both people have to be honest about their shortcomings and their limitations. I can say I've been very honest about that, but it takes me some time to see that the other person doesn't even see her own shit before it starts to negatively effect me in a way that asks me to compromise my own individuality. I'm just at the point where I don't want to compromise, I guess.
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@Ruth- I know you see me as an over-thinker, but my over-thinking doesn't limit me as much as you might think. At the heart of it is my desire to respect myself, my own path, and my own wants and desires. That's where we differ, I think. I have little desire for romantic love. I've had it- it was a great love and I'm so incredibly grateful for having known it, (you might be surprised to have seen what a true romantic I was within that ten year span) but it's not the ONE thing that brings meaning to a person's life. It's a choice among many to walk your path with another.
@NBC- What you're saying makes complete sense to me. I feel lucky to have experienced that feeling and to have knowledge of it. But having been single for as many years, I wouldn't put a value on it as one being a disaster in the making and the other being something that makes your days brighter. It could totally work the other way given certain circumstances.
You must have some idea how disheartening it is to hang on certain couples who, on the outside, seem to have it all together (no it's not perfect but they seem to be genuine FRIENDS), and everything they say and do leads you to believe that THAT must be true companionship, only to find out later what a ruse it was. That one of them or both were living a complete lie, or that one of them was an alcoholic and the other was complicit for whatever reason, pretending everything was just fine when in reality it was effecting the young children they had together. Friendship, companionship, whatever. It just seems to me people are lying to themselves and justifying it all for the sake of security.
I don't mean YOU. I think that's where a lot of people are coming from in responding to these vids, that they think I mean them. I said it from the beginning that REAL love (meaning, true companionship where one has no NEED for the other but is complemented by him/her) is most likely a rare thing. That's probably what you have, then.
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@Rams- my motivation...? Hmm...I was being playful at first. And I said I wasn't an expert. Even laughed at the idea. But I don't expect everyone to agree, and I don't think I'm right all the time.
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Comment by BlancheNoE on February 15, 2009 at 4:46pm
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Okay,..I gotta' chime in again. First I'd like to explain that the words to my love song for pen were chosen partially for the meaning they convey,...but some lines are there simply because nothing else would fit. I don't really feel like I'm half gone when he's gone because just knowing that he is in the world makes me happier to be here myself. Maybe I'm doing a disservice to those love seekers by including such lines ? I believe Tree hit the nail on the head when she said romance is an individual hobby (not the quote but you get it),..proof of that would be the fact that while pen and I were together,..I couldn't write a love song for him to save my life. It was only after he had to go back to Germany,...and the uncertainty of his return, that I was able to express my longing for him. I've been on the less tasty side of the shit sandwich most of my life, not only in "romantic" relationships, but in ALL relationships.
There was a period of time in my life when I truly believed I was a harbinger of death, as anyone that I got close to seemed to die,..so yeah, I developed somewhat of an attachment disorder. I am 43 years old and have never been married and never thought I would be. I grew up surrounded by divorce. Honestly, I'm not sure John and I would be getting married if we lived on the same side of the pond. I know we would be together, but the state's verification of our union is not important to either of us. I don't think ANYone should be getting married until thay are at LEAST 40,...50 or 60 would probably be better.
Go ahead and have your kids,..nature will guide you to the best genes for your offspring which , surprise !, will be VARied, as in mutiple partners,...but DON'T get married until you find someone who only makes you better than you were before them. I also think nobodyschild99 makes a GREAT point. I too believe that romance encompasses ALL forms of love. I had a little girl smile at me in the grocery store last night and I got butterflies in my stomach,..I fell in love with her on the spot,..it felt like what I define as romance. Sometimes Dreamcatcher's comments do that to me too.
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@ Rams - well he might not be but I am.
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@ Rams - lol well you're only human mate.
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@Sara- Wh...? It's not all about me? I'm shocked. That is not a paradigm I'm willing to accept.
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@MadHatter/David- I saved your response for last because it struck the deepest.
I think it's okay to explain yourself if you feel your message is being misunderstood and the people you're communicating with are those you care about AND if you have the time and energy to do so.
I really appreciate that you took so much time yourself to respond, given you started out saying you weren't in the mood- lol.
I know the idea of a "complete person" is a ruse, but there's some shit I needed to deal with that I didn't want to make the problem of others, is all. I didn't think it'd be fair to someone else to enter into a relationship having to deal with certain issues plus I genuinely wanted to be single for a while just to grow a little balls on my own. There's a lot of things we learn about people and ourselves in the context of a relationship, but there are some things you can only learn when you're on your own, don'tcha think?
Regarding the definition of love-
"I very much WANT to look after somebody, and care for them, and be there for them, and love them in just such a way..." But why? I'm only asking because THIS has been one of my issues...(it will surprise one person who is maybe reading this), that I wanted to take care of someone and it lead me toward compromising myself (my own integrity, really) and it hurt others as well, in a very indirect way to a degree I can't even talk about. I only realized later, through therapy, my motivations for so strongly wanting to care for another.
I hope I'm not getting too personal here. I think you know I hardly ever vlog about such personal things (it's getting me in trouble with friends I've had on here for a while, too, which is why I shouldn't.)
Why can't two people love each other without the kind of need that is potentially destructive to their own beings and to others as well? That's what I'd like to know. My cynicism lies in my own experience and my observations of others as well, that there's love there- obviously (as they might define it), but that love is not always a good thing when it comes to their own individual desires apart from that other person, or to the well-being of their children, or to the others who they love and who love them, even.
I know this view seems so selfish because I'm essentially saying the individual is lost in romantic love, but in a way, I see romantic love as being selfish energy- that it takes away from the individual and that our culture, in holding up some kind of ideal of romantic love, validates the idea that we have to sacrifice who we are in the name of it. It limits us (some of us, that is).
Don't know if I'm making any sense at this point...
But thanks for such a thoughtful response, David.
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